Thank goodness I have a blog....
I just have to get this off my chest....it irks me when people make the comment about Iraq, in supposed support of the continued US involvement in Iraq: "We broke it...now we have to fix it."
Granted, the situation in Iraq was "working" before we arrived and toppled Saddam...and now there is relative chaos. But whom was it working for? By saying we broke it, indicates that everything was a mistake. Or that the situation before the US poked its nose in was fine.
For me it is just an insulting as saying that the Union "broke" the Confederacy's economy by ending slavery, so they had to "fix" it during the subsequent Reconstruction Era.
I do believe that America has a certain responsiblity to help Iraq back on its feet again. The reconstuction of Iraq is essential to the mission, it's in the world's best interests in equipping the Iraqis with the ability to govern themselves and protect that government. We toppled a dictator, who had oppressed Iraqis for decades. His oppression did ressemble a "peace" of sorts. But that peace came at a high cost for many. And it's something I am not so ashamed about "breaking".
Granted, the situation in Iraq was "working" before we arrived and toppled Saddam...and now there is relative chaos. But whom was it working for? By saying we broke it, indicates that everything was a mistake. Or that the situation before the US poked its nose in was fine.
For me it is just an insulting as saying that the Union "broke" the Confederacy's economy by ending slavery, so they had to "fix" it during the subsequent Reconstruction Era.
I do believe that America has a certain responsiblity to help Iraq back on its feet again. The reconstuction of Iraq is essential to the mission, it's in the world's best interests in equipping the Iraqis with the ability to govern themselves and protect that government. We toppled a dictator, who had oppressed Iraqis for decades. His oppression did ressemble a "peace" of sorts. But that peace came at a high cost for many. And it's something I am not so ashamed about "breaking".
posted by CaliValleyGirl at 1:28 PM
11 Comments:
Oh, I guess I am one of those that tick you off. I have made the comment before and blogged it before. The country was stable in some respects by meaning that the currency had some worth, and there were some working systems. Yes living under a tyrannt was the trade off (and not a nice one) and many folks lost their lives. I guess I just meant that if we tear down what ever system that was there we should aid them in creating a new one. I couldn't see the US just walk away without helping them to make a better country for themselves.
You place a vivid point when you make the comparison to slavery and the civil war. Thanks for giving me another perspective to think about.
Honestly, I have said it before...and probably will say it in some form or another again.
And I never noticed you saying it...sorry if you thought I meant you. Any actually, I am sorry if I piss off anyone with this post...I like to rant, and sometimes I don't have time to polish it.
I guess it's basically, not exactly 'what' you say...it's 'how' you say it.
HH6, I belong in that group as well.
I say CVG's dreaded quote all the time.
And I do have to disagree with you this time CVG. If dictators do anything remotely worthwhile they provide stability. Iraq was a dreaded place before we invaded, but it was stable. The chaos and death since the invasion is because of the invasion. I do agree with HH6, we broke now we fix it.
Actually I think it was Colin Powell that first said that about Iraq. And who can disagree with Powell? :)
Oh and I'm glad you have a blog also.
Thanks for your commments....I am working on a rebuttel and thinking why we need to change that rhetoric. Like I said, in my reply to Miss Stella, I have said it too.
Basically, MJ...yes, dictators provide stability...Germany was stable too. My grandmother and aunt's worse time was after the war...that's when they didn't have a lot of food, that's when the whole economy fell apart here in Germany. But we hadn't "broken" Germany.
It's basically a rhetorial thing...let me think about this, about how I can better express my dislike of this saying.
And disagree with Colin Powell...yeah, that is hard...lol.
When I first went to Germany, there was German Orientation with two older ladies: Frau Arnold and Frau Kramer. Frau Kramer was much older than Frau Arnold, but she would tell these stories about why she loved Americans. And she LOVED Americans. First, she said that the mothers teach respect to the young boys. Then she said that Americans give the rest of the world hope. She made me cry almost daily with her stories of how America gave her hope.
She brought in her birth "certificate" from the Third Reich - which was really a book. The front pages were rules about how to live and they were very restrictive of personal rights. The next section was her geneology, proving her Arian heritage: a family tree that went back three generations. Finally there was a list of appropriate names for children, a list for boys and a list for girls. Couldn't even pick your own name for your child! I find that very infuriating somehow.
Anyhow, she was a school girl when the American "Occupation" started. She said that at first it was very scary because no one knew what was going to happen. Then the GIs showed up and started feeding everyone. She said that while she was still pretty tiny, she recognized the amazing historic change.... And that was the first time that she said she felt hope.
We'll finish the job. It might take time, but as you can tell from some of my own posts, I have the patience.
Iraqcad,
You still can't just pull any name out of your ass to name your kid here in Germany...there is a list of approved names, and anything beyond that is difficult to get approved. But this saves kids from getting named Rainbow, Anakin (there were some very distraught Star Wars fans who had just had a baby, and were disappointed to find out they weren't allowed to name their kid that here). Oh, and my favorite: there are apparently 8 kids in America named Espen, because their parents love ESPN.
CVG - That's my dry sense of humor not me pissed off! I'm Irish you will KNOW when I'm pissed off.:-)
But honestly you just gave me a different way of thinking and that's the best part of life. If I knew people who were just like me I'd be a Stepford Wife.
Maybe I don't word it well either, I just think that since we did remove the current government that we should stick it out and assist them with setting up another one. No matter what people protest about, even if the WMD's were a lie, I think the US should continue in the reconstruction efforts and attempt to entice more Nato & UN nations to take part. If we just walk away now and leave them with a semi-formed government I honestly feel that it will become a civil war between the Kurds, Sunnis, etc.
Honestly I think that even after a new government is established once "nuetral" forces leave it may errupt into a civil war anyways. When you have a nation of people who have lived their lives in one fashion for centuries making a 180 degree change is hard to do in one fell swoop.
So what I can't name my little girl Skittles? Darn! Seriously though your post was good. It provoked thought and comtiplation.
So, you are pissed of with comparism between Iraq and Vietnam, but you compare Hitler's dictatorship to Saddam's?
If you do, think of the economic interest, the US had in Germany in the 1930s and think of the later first head of the CIA, who spoke in favour of Antisemitism and the German government.
I do not want to make it too simple and easy here, but mention economical reasons for US-involment in wars is a must. They are not the only reasons, but free a country was never the only reason as well.
However most important, you need a plan for the time after the war, espacially when you work together with two ethnic groups but piss off the third, invite terrorists, who never before supported anything in Iraq, do not get a coalition for the nation building...
Read Timothy Gordon Ash in the "Süddeutsche Zeitung" two days ago for a more intellectual analysis of the current situation of the US of A.
Bluesman,
I totally agree that practically every war the Americans have had, had economic reasons or to pursue American interests. If we were only in it for humanitarian reasons we would be all over Africa.
Second World War included.
And hell, why we're at, the Civil War was fought by the south to protect their economy.
Yep...I totally agree. But still, I resent people saying, we broke it.
Brilliant post.
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